Autobashing - The lack of evidence
0With 2 votes
As seen by Anonymous. Posted under Imperian as a Misc log.Part of the conversation between Jeremy and myself which underlines the possible issues with the security methods. Short story, I have been placed in stuck in time for an alleged breach of the policies relating to triggers and automation (HELP 15.10 - although, by what was clarified by Jeremy, the scroll is incorrect ).
Submitted 23 Apr 2014. 1903 views in total, 0.52 per day.*** CHARACTER CREATION (Part 6 of 6) Service Agreement ***
In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html.
*** CHARACTER CREATION (Part 6 of 6) Service Agreement ***
In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Thank you for responding however, could you please clarify 15.10? Is a player allowed to simplify his bashing with the use of triggers? AFK is not mentioned at all in the policies regarding triggers and automation therefore, I was not considering any distinction with being present at the keyboard or not. If there is a distinction, could you also clarify the conditions? Regardless of any distinction, how does the administration know that a player is using triggers to hunt? Is this judged by the speed of the player's input, the lack of response or... personal assumption, spider sense? Thank you in advance for taking the time to clarify this.
Message #29 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:35
"You can use triggers to bash and to simplify combat. You cannot be afk when bashing or doing anything generating gold, xp, or other resources."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Then 15.10 - triggers and automation are allowed if they are design to generate gold and experience via bashing or doing quests, provided that the user is not afk. Thank you for clarifying this. Could you also tell me how does the administration ascertain whether or not a player is afk bashing?
Message #30 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:40
"Nope. But you were clearly autobashing."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Ah... I would have assumed that when a business has as much control over a player (over the goods that are supplied to the customer/consumer), a degree of transparency would be available when dealing with such issues as without any information, one could assume that the character can be punished (the service provided by Iron Realms Entertainment can be interrupted) without any proof that a breach has actually occurred, rendering all customers vulnerable.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I understand that you are a busy man and that you are concerned with the administration ofthis game but shouldn't I, as a consumer, be entitled to such information?
Message #31 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:53
"No. It is part of our security to make sure people are not breaking rules. If we tell people how we find out when the are abusing seconds, multiplaying, auto bashing, etc, then they will figure out ways around it. You were autobashing, you have been shrubbed in the past. Consider yourself lucky that we have not just removed you from the game completely."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I have been shrubbed in the past but as far as I can remember, that was not due to an alleged afk bashing. That was due to another claim, which, I cannot remember most of the details but that is not related to this issue and the character has been shrubbed, yes but there is a distinction between character and the person that actually plays and pays for your services. Isn't it the company's responsibility to take measures which will prevent
the player from breaking the rules or find ways to successfully detect a breach, regardless of the information that you feed to the customers? I am sure that everybody would like to know how the administration actually detects an afk bash and this is not because everyone would like to find a way around your detection, but because everyone needs some certainty when spending money on your services or purchasing an elite membership package. Perhaps I will ask on the forums.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Thank you for your time. I would like to point out an error that I have found which may be quite important, I'm not sure as I am not really good with legal issues. When creating a character from another client (CMUD), I have received this message: *** CHARACTER CREATION (Part 6 of 6) Service Agreement *** In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html. - When I clicked on the link, I have discovered that the link does not exist...
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I'm not sure whether it is important or not that a business has not drawn the consumer's attention to their exemption/exclusion clauses but I thought that I should mention this just in case it might be. :)
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I'll be honest, I have been playing this game for years and I like it. I have spent a lot of money on it (maybe not compared to Dias but i did) and I wanted to spend even more. I think that this lack of transparency which gives the impression of a risk of being punished even as innocent would deter any potential player from starting to invest time and money on this, that is why I wouldn't post this on the forums as I also want to see new players. But... I also want to know that I am protected as a consumer.
Message #32 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/19:25
"Go ahead and post on the forums. This is not new stuff."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Ok.
In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html.
*** CHARACTER CREATION (Part 6 of 6) Service Agreement ***
In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Thank you for responding however, could you please clarify 15.10? Is a player allowed to simplify his bashing with the use of triggers? AFK is not mentioned at all in the policies regarding triggers and automation therefore, I was not considering any distinction with being present at the keyboard or not. If there is a distinction, could you also clarify the conditions? Regardless of any distinction, how does the administration know that a player is using triggers to hunt? Is this judged by the speed of the player's input, the lack of response or... personal assumption, spider sense? Thank you in advance for taking the time to clarify this.
Message #29 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:35
"You can use triggers to bash and to simplify combat. You cannot be afk when bashing or doing anything generating gold, xp, or other resources."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Then 15.10 - triggers and automation are allowed if they are design to generate gold and experience via bashing or doing quests, provided that the user is not afk. Thank you for clarifying this. Could you also tell me how does the administration ascertain whether or not a player is afk bashing?
Message #30 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:40
"Nope. But you were clearly autobashing."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Ah... I would have assumed that when a business has as much control over a player (over the goods that are supplied to the customer/consumer), a degree of transparency would be available when dealing with such issues as without any information, one could assume that the character can be punished (the service provided by Iron Realms Entertainment can be interrupted) without any proof that a breach has actually occurred, rendering all customers vulnerable.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I understand that you are a busy man and that you are concerned with the administration ofthis game but shouldn't I, as a consumer, be entitled to such information?
Message #31 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/18:53
"No. It is part of our security to make sure people are not breaking rules. If we tell people how we find out when the are abusing seconds, multiplaying, auto bashing, etc, then they will figure out ways around it. You were autobashing, you have been shrubbed in the past. Consider yourself lucky that we have not just removed you from the game completely."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I have been shrubbed in the past but as far as I can remember, that was not due to an alleged afk bashing. That was due to another claim, which, I cannot remember most of the details but that is not related to this issue and the character has been shrubbed, yes but there is a distinction between character and the person that actually plays and pays for your services. Isn't it the company's responsibility to take measures which will prevent
the player from breaking the rules or find ways to successfully detect a breach, regardless of the information that you feed to the customers? I am sure that everybody would like to know how the administration actually detects an afk bash and this is not because everyone would like to find a way around your detection, but because everyone needs some certainty when spending money on your services or purchasing an elite membership package. Perhaps I will ask on the forums.
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Thank you for your time. I would like to point out an error that I have found which may be quite important, I'm not sure as I am not really good with legal issues. When creating a character from another client (CMUD), I have received this message: *** CHARACTER CREATION (Part 6 of 6) Service Agreement *** In order to finish character creation, you must read and agree to the Terms of Service at www.imperian.com/tos.html. - When I clicked on the link, I have discovered that the link does not exist...
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I'm not sure whether it is important or not that a business has not drawn the consumer's attention to their exemption/exclusion clauses but I thought that I should mention this just in case it might be. :)
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
I'll be honest, I have been playing this game for years and I like it. I have spent a lot of money on it (maybe not compared to Dias but i did) and I wanted to spend even more. I think that this lack of transparency which gives the impression of a risk of being punished even as innocent would deter any potential player from starting to invest time and money on this, that is why I wouldn't post this on the forums as I also want to see new players. But... I also want to know that I am protected as a consumer.
Message #32 Sent By: Jeremy Received On: 4/23/2014/19:25
"Go ahead and post on the forums. This is not new stuff."
You sent the following message to Jeremy:
Ok.